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Author
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Topic: PB Win 8.0 - Effect on EZGUI market ?
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Chris Boss
Administrator
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posted 02-18-2005 02:05 PM
  
OK,PB Win 8.0 has just been released and the
command set is impressive, including a
print engine and graphic engine. PB 8 is now treading on EZGUI territory, so I am interested in my customers feedback about how this may compare to EZGUI 3.0 . What advantages still exist with EZGUI 3.0 over PB 8.0 ? Has anyone started using PB 8.0 yet ? What will it take for EZGUI to stay ahead of PB (built in commands) ? |
Ivan
Member
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posted 02-18-2005 03:40 PM
In my opinion, I don't think it's a bad thing, personally like EZGUI because I can write apps quite fast without tinkering with API calls and stuff, and that's where EZGUI shines.My humble 2 cents |
Ivan
Member
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posted 02-18-2005 03:50 PM
One more thing, to stay ahead, EZGUI should have a set of instructions which will allow the programmer create apps quickly, having a "most used" set for example, such as, play media, send to tray, and other common procedures. |
Chris Boss
Administrator
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posted 02-18-2005 04:49 PM
I downloaded the PB 8.0 sample programs and source code.I like the print engine. While simple it does the job very well. You may even be able to use the DDT print engine within an EZGUI app, by the looks of it. The graphics engine in PB 8.0 is extremely simple. The graphics control is not a custom control, but is simply a Label (Static) control with the ownerdraw style. The DDT engine must create an internal Bitmap, which is where you draw on and then it redraws the ownerdraw label control internally. I took another look at the new command set and it looks like you can draw using the graphic commands on a Bitmap as well. This may useful in EZGUI apps. I found something interesting !!! To show you that Powerbasic does take a look at the things I design, one of the PB 8.0 sample programs has a routine which generates the 16 QB colors, plus 16 pastel QB colors which is obviously based on my QB color routine generated by my freeware DDT Designer. All the QB pastel colors are identical to the ones I defined. I have to admit that I am impressed with how cleanly they implimented all these new controls and the final applications are very small. No Windows API's are needed for the drawing/printing code which is good. The only problem with the graphics engine (not the print engine) is that it looks like it is reliant upon the DDT engine, meaning that you can't use it with SDK (or EZGUI) style code. It requires the DDT internal dialog engine to draw the graphics. This is a downside to it, IMO, since it limits its use. I may be wrong, but I don't see how it can be used outside of a DDT dialog (since it is ownerdraw). The graphics engine seems to use DIBSections internally (DDT calls DIB API functions), but I am not sure if it gives you access to the pixel data directly.
[This message has been edited by Chris Boss (edited 02-18-2005).]
[This message has been edited by Chris Boss (edited 02-18-2005).] |
Frank Kelley
Member
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posted 02-18-2005 05:08 PM
Just placed my order for 8.0 but I don't see any changes in my use of EZGUI. As Ivan said, the speed of development is where EZGUI shines. While the PB improvements and expanded command set are always welcome, they don't replace what EZGUI brings to the table...er, keyboard.Hopefully, there won't be any keyword conflicts between EZGUI and PB 8. It should also be interesting to determine if Borje's comments about improved speed for string handling turn out to be true in the case of the apps I've written where string use is heavy. The bottom line: I'm ready to purchase EZGUI 3.5 when you say it's ready for release. Just keep on keepin' on, Chris! |
Jim Padgett
Member
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posted 02-18-2005 06:03 PM
I haven't seen PB 8 yet, but I use whatever tool in my box that makes the job easier.
I have PBForms but I only use it for really simple apps. ( I was never a real DDT fan )
When I want to do more with a GUI.. I always turn to EZ_GUI . I don't see that changing anytime soon... |
Russ Srole
Member
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posted 02-18-2005 07:49 PM
Chris,I haven't looked at 8.0 yet, but I will buy it and will also upgrade to ezgui 3.5 when it's available. Tools are tools and Swiss army knives are not. I've never had luck with one size fits all. Russ |
Bert Mercier
Member
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posted 02-18-2005 11:59 PM
AS far as I am concerned, I see no reason to not use EZ. Just think about it EZ makes windows as linear programming as can possibly. I can almost write programs just like I did on the Atari. For a non professional this is all that counts.
I just finished a time sheet entering program for the company in less than 4 days of free time. No way I could do that with any other available programming aid. I own FF and used to own a VD licence I tried to use both of them but because of not having any time to become a pro, EZ is still trhe only tool I paid for and continue using.bert mercier |
Steven Pringels
Member
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posted 02-19-2005 06:56 AM
Well, Bob Zale did a great job again but as with any release there are some disappointments as well. For me, the DDT still doesn't do MDI properly. There is no full COM integration, no Object orientation/based approach, no static library linking etc...So, I'm thinking, is this worth an upgrade. From the point of technological progress, to me the answer is no ! Albeit that I will upgrade just only to support a company like PowerBasic. It might be true that printing and adding graphics is now easier 'out-of-the-box' but, fairly Chris, EZGUI offered this already long time before ! Why should I stop using EZGUI, if the only reason is to avoid a third-party DLL, I guess that's a valid reason for some. Not to me Chris. So, in short, I'm looking forward to EZGUI 3.5 and 4.0 and 4.5  PS: I really hoped to see other things in PowerBasic. 2 years of expectations that are not fullfilled. It's a pitty. |
Eddy Van Esch
Member
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posted 02-19-2005 10:44 AM
I feel pretty much the same:
I will update to PBWin 8.0 but not right away. I am in no hurry. Let's await some of the comments first.
At the same time, I will also update to EZGUI 3.5 when it is out. While PBWin improves every time, I have grown attached to the ease of use and the fast development time of EZGUI.
I also have a license for VD (PwrDev) but I find myself using EZGUI most of the time. The main reason is that it is such an extensive and versatile package: graphics, print engine, ownerdraw support, toolbar support, etc. In fact, so far I haven't been in a (programming) situation where EZGUI could not provide me with a solution.Kind regards ------------------
Eddy
raimundo4u at yahoo dot com www.devotechs.com -- HIME Huge Integer Math and Encryption library |
Roger Rines
Member
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posted 02-19-2005 11:32 AM
I've already ordered the CDs for the new PB versions, but my thoughts are fairly close to what Steven Pringels shares about what been accomplished by the PB upgrades. From my perspective, my upgrade purchase was an upgrade to support the PB team, not to get more capability. This is especially true when it comes to the lack of progress in how PB supports COM programming. Not having made progress in that area, especially given all the COM interest shown over the last two years on the PB Forum, says they either couldn't figure out how to do it, or they didn't think it was important. Either way it keeps us stuck using clumsy processes to communicate with today's applications and almost no documentation to help us get it right. Graphics capabilities are important for a lot of stuff I do, but I didn't see anything that would pull me away from EZGUI's graphic tools. My charting project wouldn't be were it is today without the wrappers in EZGUI because I just don't have the time to develop the SDK graphics knowledge, and also get some work done as well. If PB really has tied their graphics to the DDT engine, then I can't see any benefit for EZGUI or SDK people. From where I see things, the new graphics commands you now have and those you've mentioned will be very important to those of us wanting graphics in our applications first, and SDK lessons second. As far as keeping EZGUI competitive, just keep refining EZGUI. It is already a really great development approach that doesn't have any real comparisons. If there is a weakness in EZGUI, it is in the documentation. The old style help and limited topic scope of the more complex aspects of some of the commands are all that slows people down from being more successful sooner. To a large extent this forum does an outstanding job of helping, but a lot of what is asked should have been covered in the Help file. More importantly, nobody likes being dependant upon someone else, and live support for EZGUI is far more important to me than it should be. Put me down as a strong EZGUI supporter who isn't worried about the new PB upgrade. While PB has a great community on its forum, internally it doesn't have the same great spirit of willingness to help its users succeed that you demonstrate time after time after time. If PB ever packages a "Chris Boss" in their upgrade, that would be the time to worry.
------------------
Roger...
mail to rdrines at spamcop dot net |
Gary Stout
Member
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posted 02-19-2005 01:38 PM
I have to agree with the others... I think EZGUI is really in a class of its own and serves a particular type of programmers. My background was in PB Dos programming and making the move to Windows programming was a Great big hurdle for me. I bought PB/DLL 1.0 through 5.0 and never created one program. I wanted to learn how to do something, anything with it, I just couldn't get a grasp for it. Finally, somewhere around PB/DLL 6.0, I discovered EZGUI 1.0 and the rest was history. Within about a week of playing with EZGUI and getting familiar with it, I was able to actually create something besides "Hello World".
I think EZGUI is always going to be a marketable product, especially to those in my category, trying to make the dos/windows transition.On a side note, I received both upgrades today and so far none of my existing programs compile (not good).... It looks like added Keywords conflicts and some syntax changes. One error stopped on a line that addressed a pointer. I have only had about 5 minutes to play with it, so I will try to report back on anything I find that will affect EZGUI programs. Gary |
Brian Reynolds
Member
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posted 02-19-2005 03:21 PM
Gary said it very well. I, too, went through the early PB windows things without success until I bought EZGUI and found I could suddenly re-write everything I had done in DOS into Windows.
While PBWin (I've only got 7.?) is great, EZGUI makes it so much easier to use PBWin and saves a tremendous amount of time.
Brian.
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Robert E. DeBolt
Member
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posted 02-19-2005 08:29 PM
I concur with all the above. I believe most all EZGUI programmers will remain loyal to the product and support your efforts for improvements and upgrades. I am a dedicated JFP/Lynx user, so I already have the IDE functionality offered by PB8. I would find the debugger enhancements useful, though. Chris, have you formulated any plans to implement the new PB8 functionality and features into EZGUI? ------------------
Regards,
Bob [This message has been edited by Robert E. DeBolt (edited 02-19-2005).] |
Brian Reynolds
Member
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posted 02-20-2005 02:54 AM
One thing that I have omitted to mention, and I bet there are a number of EZGUI users in the same boat, it was really using EZGUI that taught me how to write in Windows, how to make API calls and how to get the best out of PBWin. I will continue with EZGUI because it offers relative simplicity to programming in Windows, irrespective of PB upgrades.
There are heaps of us old blokes around who programmed for such a long time in DOS and won't ever make the complete transition to Windows programming.
Fortunately, Chris, you've done that for us with EZGUI.
Regards,
Brian.
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Jim Padgett
Member
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posted 02-20-2005 09:51 AM
When I started with PBWin I used PGEN for my GUI. I did not mind using API, but soon
learned that I was spending many hours
researching various API calls that did not
appear to work as documented.I was thrilled with EZ_GUI mostly because it worked and worked well. I spent minimal time learning it and unlike API no time trying to figure out why it did not work. That is why I will stay with it. What it does it does well. Just my 2 cents....
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Michael Meeks
unregistered
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posted 02-24-2005 02:45 AM
Yes, I concure!Enjoyed all of your comments About EZGUI! I live and breath by it! Once you learn EZGUI, it's almost impossible to go back to PB-Forms or any other Designer Program. There is nothing easier, faster, rock-solid, tried and tested - and I fully agree: It is in a class by itself! No other PB-Tool, (trust me) - I own them all - and even if you combine the value of them all - they can never come close to the value of what EZGUI means to me! Remember when you had to dig out the ole Charles Petzold - 5lbs - books and find that API Routine, research - til wee hours in the morning... Let's face it. Chris has made me lazy!  EZGUI is just that - it takes away all of the BS and allow's me to concentrate more on my program - and not worry about the design! Furthermore - You guys that come here and support chris and the rest of us - it's great to see and have a base like this forum!  And if your reading this - and haven't purchased EZGUI - then all I can say is - you just don't know what you're missing! Regards
Mike
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